How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by lara pet hospital on Thu, 17/11/2016 - 17:37

General User's Discussion

Sorry if this has been covered before.

We use multiple wholesalers and update our stock as each invoice comes in. However different wholesalers have different prices for the same items. We would like to use the more expensive price to be the price used for mark up even if we are able to source it at a cheaper price, or get a special deal at some times.

We have the more expensive product checked as our preferred supplier and we have automatic updates on pricing done for all suppliers. We find that the price used is the most recent invoice entered into the computer regardless of the preferred status, or the other wholesaler prices.

Is there a way of ensuring which price gets used for mark up? It is difficult to explain constant small price changes up and down to clients who come in for chronic problems which need medication.

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by tgething (not verified) on Fri, 18/11/2016 - 06:53.

The "fix" is to do one of two things:

a) unset the Automatic Price Update flag for all the product's suppliers (via the Suppliers tab on the Products|Information screen - see http://www.openvpms.org/documentation/csh/1.9/concepts/pricingUpdates or http://www.openvpms.org/documentation/csh/1.8/concepts/pricingUpdates

b) in 1.9 there is a flag in the Administration|Practice settings that says "Ignore List Price Deceases'. With this on, and Automatic Price Updates on, then if the price goes up, it gets updated but not if it goes down. As it says in http://www.openvpms.org/documentation/csh/1.9/admin/organisation/practice

Recommended action: updated to 1.9 (it has some nice features); leave Auto price update on, but turn on 'Ignore List Price Decreases'.

Regards, Tim G

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by activet on Wed, 28/12/2016 - 11:46.

Hi Tim,

We are just about to update to 1.9 :) Just want to clarify regarding the above, when Ignore List Price Decreases is selected, the explanation note says "auto-price updates will be ignored if a delivery item List Price is less than the existing List Price for 'a' Product Supplier". What happens if products are ordered through multiple suppliers as the above user experienced? Do you mean any price decrease through other suppliers will be ignored too?

This was the same issue I raised a while ago:

http://www.openvpms.org/forum/auto-price-update-same-product-different-s...

Kind regards,

Anthony (ActiVet)

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by tgething (not verified) on Fri, 30/12/2016 - 09:52.

Anthony - the 'Ignore List Price Decreases' option is set at the Practice level. However, the Auto Update setting is set on the product's supplier tab.

Hence if you source product XXX from suppliers S1, S2 and S3, where S1 is your preferred supplier and has Auto Update set but the others do not, then only purchases of XXX from S1 will be subject to the Auto Update process and thus are candidates for possibly ignoring list price decreases.

If you happen to purchase XXX from S2 or S3 (say because S1 is temporarily out of stock) then there will be no auto updating.

If you do choose to set Auto Update for product XXX for S2 and S3, then any time you do buy from them, auto update will apply and thus these are now candidates for possibly ignoring list price decreases.

In the post you referenced you said:

"I've come across other vet management databases and they handled such circumstances by allowing an extra tick box function for the item to only automatically update product price when the list price is higher than previous order but does nothing if the product list price drops. (You'll have to manually update the product sale price if it is a legitimate manufacturer price reduction)"

So assuming you set Auto Update for both S1 and S2, with 'Ignore List Price Decreases' checked, then irrespective of whether you order from S1 or S2, the price of XXX will never decrease.

However, the OpenVPMS implementation uses a practice level 'Ignore List Price Decreases' switch rather than having this option settable for each supplier for each product. But the 'has the list price decreased' comparision is done against the list price held the supplier from which the product is being received - not against the cost price held for the product.

Note also that for Auto Update to "work" then as per http://www.openvpms.org/documentation/csh/1.9/product/tabs#supplier

I have just tweaked the entry on http://www.openvpms.org/documentation/csh/1.9/admin/organisation/practice to read:

Hope this clarifies things. Regards, Tim G

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by activet on Sat, 31/12/2016 - 22:16.

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your reply and clarification! This addition functionality in 1.9 would perfectly suit our need as we normally keep the Auto Update turned on across different suppliers for the same product. This would eliminate any fluctuation in pricing when receiving same product from different suppliers.

Happy New Year!

Kind regards,

Anthony (ActiVet)

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by tgething (not verified) on Sun, 01/01/2017 - 07:05.

Anthony - remember that if say supplier S2 increases their list price compared to the last time you purchased from them, then when you order from them (and Auto Update is turned on for them), then the update will occur - EVEN if this results in the Cost price being decreased.

Tim A - I just ran the following test: [with 'ignore list price decreases' set and auto update on on the product's supplier tab]

set cost price to $500 (was $131)
order item with list price of $131
process the delivery of the above and set the list price to $200 and finalise

The cost price of the item was decreased from $500 to $200.

Is the 'ignore list price decreases' meant to look only at the list price from the supplier and not check the effect on the cost price?

In the above test, the list price from the supplier increased from $131 to $200 (and thus represented an increase of the supplier's list price) - BUT the effect was to decrease the cost price.

Although the above was an artificial test (because I forced the cost price up to $500) - it seems to me that the 'ignore list price decreases' logic should also look at the effect on the cost price so that things work properly in a multi-supplier environment.

That is, if 'ignore list price decreases' is set (and auto update is set) then, if the supplier's list price increases, the list price on the product's supplier tab will be updated - BUT the cost price will ONLY be updated if it was less than the new supplier list price.

Comments please.

Regards, Tim G

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by tanderson on Thu, 05/01/2017 - 12:01.

The cost price is derived from the list price, i.e.

cost price = list price / package size

so I think the cost price has to be updated regardless.

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by activet on Mon, 09/01/2017 - 13:53.

Hi Tim G and Tim A,

I could see your concern, Tim G, with the test that you did. I would have thought in your artificial scenario, the cost price should NOT be automatically reduced from $500 to $200 when 'ignore list price decreases' was activated despite Auto Update was selected because the cost price which was previously stored (say from another supplier) was higher.

Therefore the 'ignore list price decreases' would not function to prevent price fluctuation for product from different suppliers then because the auto update function would override it...

So what does 'ignore list price decrease' actually do then Tim A? I'm a bit lost here.

Kind regards,

Anthony (ActiVet)

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by tanderson on Tue, 10/01/2017 - 10:14.

When the Auto Price Update option is on:

the product cost price is derived from the list price i.e.:
cost price = list price / package size
the product unit price is derived from the cost price i.e.:
unit price = cost * (1 + markup/100)

So if the list price changes, so does the cost and unit prices.

The Ignore List Price Decreases option disables this, if the delivery item List Price is less than the existing List Price on the Product's Supplier tab.

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by tgething (not verified) on Tue, 10/01/2017 - 11:15.

Tim A - I agree that this is the way it should work - but in the test I ran (see above), although the list price did decrease, the cost price was decreased - even though 'ignore list price decreases' was on. That is, although the list price on the supplier tab was left unaltered, the decrease was applied to the cost price and the sell price.

Regards, Tim G

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by tanderson on Sat, 14/01/2017 - 12:08.

Sorry - I'm not sure I understand your point. When Ignore List Price Decreases is enabled, and a delivery for a supplier has a List Price less than the existing List Price for that supplier, the price update is ignored. The List Price on other Product Supplier relationships is not taken into account.

If you have Auto Price Update set for multiple Product Supplier relationships, then the Cost and Price could decrease. To avoid this, you could set the List Price the same on each.

Hope this helps. If not, send me some screen shots of what you are trying to do.

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by activet on Mon, 20/02/2017 - 18:30.

Hi Tim A,

Thanks for your clarification, I can now understand how this truly function and I've run some tests on my non-production server to see how different scenario affected the outcome.

Firstly, in response to what you said: "If you have Auto Price Update set for multiple Product Supplier relationships, then the Cost and Price could decrease. To avoid this, you could set the List Price the same on each."

I do not believe it is a practical way to manually set the List Price the same on each product that we've got across different suppliers. Do you think it is possible to tweak the function to work in future version to incorporate 'ignoring list price decreases' across all product suppliers??

Secondly, I've also tested Tim G's scenario above. It is true if the Cost Price has been manually changed (for whatever reason by the user), then OpenVPMS would still over-ride the manually entered Cost Price by working out a 'new' Cost Price based on the Delivery List Price entered despite the 'new' Cost Price is less than the manual one entered before even with Ignore List Price Decreases activated.

I don't think changing the Cost Price manually is something that we'd do normally but I think we need to make users aware that if one wants to enter a specific Price (sell price) for a product, then the (sell) Price can be manually entered but leave the Cost Price alone. Hopefully that make sense to you. I can send in screenshots to your email if you'd like.

Kind regards,

Anthony (ActiVet)

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by tgething (not verified) on Tue, 21/02/2017 - 07:18.

(The indent was getting large so I did 'post new comment')

I think that we need the logic to be as follows:

Compare delivery price to cost

If same:
if delivery price different to supplier list, and auto update set, update supplier list

If greater, and if auto-update set for this supplier, then update supplier list, product cost and product sell

If less then:
- if ignore price decreases set, no updates required
- else
       if auto-update set for this supplier, then update supplier list,
                 product cost and product sell
       else no updates required

The current logic appears to be:

if auto update off then no updates required

if auto update on, update product cost and sell and then compare delivery price to list price held for this supplier.
If less then:
- if ignore price descreases set, no updates required
- else update supplier list

That is, the auto update switch is taking priority over the ignore price decreases switch, but it should not.

Regards, Tim G

Re: How to set which price to use for a particular product?

Submitted by tanderson on Wed, 22/02/2017 - 13:19.

Tim, in the above you said:

"Compare delivery price to cost"

That should be "Compare delivery list price to supplier list price"?

Also, the 'Auto Price Update' applies to updating product unit prices from the supplier details. Disabling it doesn't restrict updating the supplier list price.

So to meet the requirements above, I think the logic would be:

1. if there is no product-supplier relationship for the delivery, create one; else update the existing details (this is the current behaviour)

2. if Auto Price Update is true and:

Ignore List Price Decreases is false, update unit prices
Ignore List Price Decreases is true, and:
- the new calculated cost price is less than the existing unit price(s) cost price, don't update; otherwise
- update