Permanently attaching Patient Letters to Medical Records
Hi,
We are a referral practice and as such frequently use the "patient letter" functionality of openvpms to report to our referring vets.
We use open office as our word processor. Currently the letter is generated by merging the patient data into the writer document and then text from the patient note is cut then pasted into the body of the letter and the letter sent by fax (hylafax server). The document is then discarded as it is too cumbersome to save, then re-attach to the patient file. We can retrieve the documents by search our email confirmations of the hylafax however this is also cumbersome.
Is it possible to automate the file saving process such that the letter will save to the patient's documents section of their medical records as the version that has received the merged data and the text from the patient note?
Thanks
Sam
Permanently attaching
Hi Sam,
I agree the process is not ideal. The problem is when we retrieve a letter it is essentially downloaded from the application server to the local application setup to handle that document type i.e open office, word. In order for it get back into the application it needs to be imported back which requires 3-4 steps to complete. i.e save to local file, edit letter/attachment/image entry , browse to file, save
The issue is the computer where the letter is downloaded is not necessarily the same computer running the openvpms web application. May be across the room or across the planet. The application that edits the letter has no understanding where the document came from and how to get it back.
I believe there are two approaches to resolve this.
1. Find or build a google docs type online editor. This way the editing is done within the OpenVPMS application and saving back to the database managed by the application.
2. Open Office plugin. A extension to OpenOffice to allow it to interact with the OpenVPMS application directly somehow.
I like no 1 best as I know it has been done before and maybe there is an open source solution out there somewhere we may be able to use.
Any other ideas guys ?
Cheers
Tony
Permanently attaching
Both OpenOffice and Microsoft Office support WebDAV , a protocol which allows users to edit and manage files on web servers.
OpenVPMS could make documents accessible via WebDAV and therefore be editable within your favourite editor.
-Tim
Webdav
So regards to Tims comments re Webdav;
Tim, does webdav work by being able to directly open the the document and have any edits saved/updated directly to the version in the database? I'm aware of the "web folders" concept where documents could be opened and saved as if they were in a local folder despite being stored on a webserver.
In our context would that mean openvpms would create a web listing of all the letters in openvpms? How would we search/organise such a listing?
Just curious :)
Matt C
Webdav
I don't think we need to provide full WebDAV access to the documents. We would provide a link to a document, within the patient workspace which can then be either
1. pasted into OpenOffice's File -> Open dialog
2. opened using a Firefox plugin (DownloadWith) which can be configured to launch OpenOffice when you right click on the link
In both cases, OpenOffice (and potentially Ms Word) should be able to edit and save the document to OpenVPMS.
There are a couple of things to be aware of:
* if you left click on the link, it will download the file to the local folder, so there is the possibility for confusion about whether the file is being edited locally, or on the server.
* you will be probably prompted for a password to edit the document
There is at least one opensource WebDAV project we might be able to use to add this support: http://milton.ettrema.com/index.html
-Tim
Re: Webdav
_______________________________________________ OpenVPMS User Mailing List users@lists.openvpms.org To unsubscribe or change your subscription visit: http://lists.openvpms.org/listinfo/users Posts from this mailing list can be viewed online and replied to in the OpenVPMS User's forum- http://tinyurl.com/openvfu
Re: Webdav
From a useability perspective, its simpler than downloading the document, editing it, and re-uploading.
So its promising, but there needs to be some prototyping done to determine if its a viable solution.
[EDIT] Firefox's DownloadWith plugin is no longer supported, so users would need to copy and paste the document URL
into OpenOffice/MS Word.
-Tim
Permanently attaching
What about extending the investigation report document import utility to also import documents, images, etc to the patients medical record?
The patient's id number could be used as part of a document name and then the importer could pull it in.
From the user's point of view all that would be involved would be saving it in the right folder with the right naming nomenclature.
I would like to be able to easily add scanned anaesthetic and dental records to the patient medical record but it is a bit painful at present.
Matt Y.
Re: New or updated comment for General User's Discussion Forum t
Thanks for all the ideas. I like your idea Matt Y as we use the autocorrect function of open office extensively to create our documents and I wouldn't like to loose that by starting to use an online editor. A manual transfer of the patient ID would not be ideal due to input error and then stalled document import utilities however if a macro could be created that automatically saved the document into a predetermined folder usinf a merged patient ID within the document itself it may work really well.
Sam
Permanently attaching
Hi Matt,
Actually the document import function works for all documents not just investigations. It works the same way in that you utilise the id of the document act you wish to import to as the name of the file. So the process is create the customer, patient, supplier document/attachment/image etc in OpenVPMS and the utilise the displayed act id to set the filename and it will be imported :-)
The idea of using this function as an easier way to edit and commit documents is a good one. We should be able to change the document download process to rename the file to the id so it is easier to save directly into the import folder. The other thing to note is version 1.4 can keep versions of documents rather than over writing the document when it is re imported. The document import utility supports this as well.
Cheers
Tony
Re: Permanently attaching
One hurdle may be that OpenOffice by default will want to save the document where it currently exists, which is usually the temp folder. This means navigating to the import folder each time (presumably a network share so that all consoles/instances of openvpms can save there).
Is this option going to represent some complexity for the average user tho? The use of an "in program" rich text editor is probably the simplest from the users perspective (perhaps the most expensive also!).
I'm curious Sam, what features of OpenOffice do you use? Text formatting (bold, italics, etc) can be achieved via RTF editors. User fields might be able to be including using delimiters. Any other features?
Matt C
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 23:20:51 +0000 (UTC), tony@openvpms.org wrote: > Hi Matt, > Actually the document import function works for all documents not just > investigations. It works the same way in that you utilise the id of the > document act you wish to import to as the name of the file. So the > process is create the customer, patient, supplier > document/attachment/image etc in OpenVPMS and the utilise the displayed > act id to set the filename and it will be imported :-) > The idea of using this function as an easier way to edit and commit > documents is a good one. We should be able to change the document > download process to rename the file to the id so it is easier to save > directly into the import folder. The other thing to note is version 1.4 > can keep versions of documents rather than over writing the document when > it is re imported. The document import utility supports this as well. > Cheers > Tony > _______________________________________________ > OpenVPMS User Mailing List > users@lists.openvpms.org > To unsubscribe or change your subscription visit: > http://lists.openvpms.org/listinfo/users > Posts from this mailing list can be viewed online and replied to in the > OpenVPMS User's forum- http://tinyurl.com/openvfu >_______________________________________________ OpenVPMS User Mailing List users@lists.openvpms.org To unsubscribe or change your subscription visit: http://lists.openvpms.org/listinfo/users Posts from this mailing list can be viewed online and replied to in the OpenVPMS User's forum- http://tinyurl.com/openvfu
Re: New or updated comment for General User's Discussion Forum t
Hi Matt,
We use the functionality of open office mostly to help construct our discharge notes. This is predominantly using the autocorrect function to expand short strings of text into paragraphs of advice. The autocorrects contain offset dates and merge fields so they are reasonable complex I would assume.
I agree that the process needs to be simple and quick for the end user. In our case we can still track our documents by searching for the hylafax confirmations using the referring vet's fax number if we ever need to retrieve the document and this appears simpler that the proposed alternatives.
It appears we are really trying to do something that the system is not designed to do and as a result a degree of complexity will result.
Thanks everyone for their comments. I am happy to support any future work in this area however do feel the functionality of using open office as a merged document will need to remain.
Sam
Permanently attaching
I never realised that the document import utility could be used for documents other than investigations- That is really handy. I have edited my archetypes now so that the document id is displayed. You can also incorporate the id of the document into your template using a user field of id. That way when saving you can just copy it prior to saving and paste it in the document name. Having them named with document id automatically would certainly help here.
The only issue is that the versioning doesn't yet exist for patient forms.
The default save location can be set in Openoffice, so it could be set to the import folder. It just means that users would need to press save as instead of save.
We used a similar function in rxworks at a previous practice I worked at and some of the users where not very computer literate but could still figure out where they had to save their documents and how to name them correctly to get them imported. So I don't think it would be an issue for users.
I think that emulating the performance of a desktop app like openoffice with an online editor would not be nearly as feature rich. I have tried using google docs. It's a fairly mature application now, but the experience comes nowhere near that of using a desktop application.
Matt Y.
Permanently attaching
Hi Matt,
Customer and Patient Forms were designed for documents where you do not need to store a copy of the document in the database but just a reference to the template. In this case versioning in not required.
If you are wanting to store and modify a specific instance of a form it needs to be a letter. :-)
Cheers
Tony
Versioning of forms/letters
Hi Tony,
The trouble with it having to be a letter is it can't be easily printed during the checking-in process like a form can.
A couple of examples:
1. Dental record. During admission for a dental we print a dental record which is currently a form. Once the form is completed I want to be able to upload it back in. At present I manually do this. In this situation (if the overwrite option is set) will the uploader save the completed form?
2. In house lab test forms are printed on admission. The results are recorded on the file and then saved back again.
I think in general these wouldn't necessarily require a version history but the original form could need to be reprinted after they are uploaded. For example to repeat a test.
Maybe there's a better way for me to do this?......
Matt Y.
Re: Permanently attaching
But my experience with downloading openoffice content (say .odt) is that it works as follows; a) It downloads the content according to the file type association stored in the browser - in my case straight to openoffice. b) It opens as a ReadOnly document which has been created in the browser Temp directory. c) Save As in openoffice opens in the Temp directory.
The initial download location is not important, in fact we don't won't the initial document to download to the fileloader directory. We only want the subsequently saved and edited doc to save there. I can't get my open office install to select that location if I have open the document from another location. It seems to always default back to where the original readonly document resides?
Matt C
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 01:48:26 +0000 (UTC), matt@mattyoung.com.au wrote: > I never realised that the document import utility could be used for > documents other than investigations- That is really handy. I have edited > my archetypes now so that the document id is displayed. You can also > incorporate the id of the document into your template using a user field > of id. That way when saving you can just copy it prior to saving and paste > it in the document name. Having them named with document id automatically > would certainly help here. > > The only issue is that the versioning doesn't yet exist for patient forms. > > The default save location can be set in Openoffice, so it could be set to > the import folder. It just means that users would need to press save as > instead of save. > > We used a similar function in rxworks at a previous practice I worked at > and some of the users where not very computer literate but could still > figure out where they had to save their documents and how to name them > correctly to get them imported. So I don't think it would be an issue for > users. > > I think that emulating the performance of a desktop app like openoffice > with an online editor would not be nearly as feature rich. I have tried > using google docs. It's a fairly mature application now, but the > experience comes nowhere near that of using a desktop application. > > Matt Y. > _______________________________________________ > OpenVPMS User Mailing List > users@lists.openvpms.org > To unsubscribe or change your subscription visit: > http://lists.openvpms.org/listinfo/users > Posts from this mailing list can be viewed online and replied to in the > OpenVPMS User's forum- http://tinyurl.com/openvfu >_______________________________________________ OpenVPMS User Mailing List users@lists.openvpms.org To unsubscribe or change your subscription visit: http://lists.openvpms.org/listinfo/users Posts from this mailing list can be viewed online and replied to in the OpenVPMS User's forum- http://tinyurl.com/openvfu
Permanently attaching
My apologies, you're right Matt.
Openoffice doesn't seem to automatically choose a new default save location for documents opened from a specific location. So it would require the user to pick the right location to save it. I can't really see that being a big issue though- as long as the location is easy for them to find.
Permanently attaching
Hi Matt,
Rather than changing the principal behinf forms maybe we can just modify the checkin process to allow printing of letters as well ?
I think this will be significantly easier :-)
Cheers
Tony
Re: New or updated comment for General User's Discussion Forum t
That sounds like a better idea to me Tony :-)
Cheers,
Matt Y.
Permanently attaching
Not sure where this project/ forum is at, but we would like to re-start the discussion if anyone has any further comments. If there is a way to change the software to allow automatically saving openoffice documents to patient file including the text that has been pasted, we will contribute $3000.00 to the develpment.
Letter editing and attaching automation
Hi Greta,
Currently the solution coming from the forum was as follows (correct me if I'm wrong Tony);
1. A letter is created in OpenVPMS.
The creation process and then automatic opening in openoffice could be acheived by sequencing the creation the automatic downloading through the broswer settings for openoffice document types).
It will generally open as an editable but read only version that lives in the Temp directory of the browser.
The filename of the newly created document is its document act id by default.
2. The document is edited.
3. "Save As" the document to your file uploader folder. (Create a Share folder that has a link readily available, say within your desktop)
4. It automatically uploads the document saving both the original blank document and the newly edited version. Furthermore, by opening the document later and editing, it will save the original version and the new version automatically.
The only real trick here is getting the file creation, download and naming processes to work. Everything else is already developed. Am I right Tony?
Cheers,
Matt C
Letter editing and attaching automation
Hi Matt,
I think the discussion progressed to building a WebDAV interface which would provide a mechanism to allow direct editing of content. Some prototyping required to confirm operation and usability but think this would be better approach.
The solution you mention is viable as well and the necessary components are already developed but the process is more complicated from a user perspective. We would also need to test the process in order to iron out any gotcha's etc
Cheers
Tony
Re: New or updated comment for General User's Discussion Forum t
Hi Matt and Tony,
Thanks for your comments. I am really happy with using open office and I wouldn't like any changes to diminish the funtionality of the word processor (autocorrect options, offset dates and the ability to use merged data). As I am not aware of the technical aspects as you are then I would leave it to you and should it get enough support to raise a jira then I am happy to pledge as previously mentioned.
Sam
Letter editing and attaching automation
Hi Tony and Sam,
So re your comments Tony,
What does using WebDAV mean for users? Do they edit within open office or a text editor built within OpenVPMS?
Sorry, not very familar with the process myself.
Cheers,
Matt C
Letter editing and attaching automation
Users would edit documents within OpenOffice. On save, the document would automatically be stored in OpenVPMS.
-Tim
Attaching Letter to client/patient files
Sandra @ Bellarine
Hi,
Was just about to get on the forums to see how I could attach a letter to a client file and found this discussion, I got a bit lost reading through all the forum entries and don't really understand the discussion.
We wanted to store a blank letterhead in OpenVPMS, we wanted to be able to edit it and save it to a client file. We have our discharge sheets as letters in OpenVPMS and use the WORD 'fill-in' function, so that the vets load the letter to the patient file, the question prompts come up and the vets/nurses fill them in and then save it. It saves to the patient file and can be reprinted at any time. I had an idea I could attach client letters in a similar sort of way by adding a blank letterhead as a letter template in OpenVPMS but after playing around a bit I've found it won't work because when I add the letter in the client DOCUMENTS area OpenVPMS will only allow 300 characters in the input parameters area. I THINK my problem would be solved here if we could have more than 300 characters???????? But maybe I'm wrong. Can anyone shed any light?
Sandra.
Re: Attaching Letter to client/patient files
Within the discussion of letter attachment there is talk of editing Openoffice documents directly using Weddav. This is not technology I am that familiar with but if it worked it might limit the need for user fields altogether?
Matt C
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 02:30:08 +0000 (UTC), sandra@bellvet.com.au wrote: > Sandra @ Bellarine > Hi, > Was just about to get on the forums to see how I could attach a letter to a > client file and found this discussion, I got a bit lost reading through all > the forum entries and don't really understand the discussion. > We wanted to store a blank letterhead in OpenVPMS, we wanted to be able > to edit it and save it to a client file. We have our discharge sheets as > letters in OpenVPMS and use the WORD 'fill-in' function, so that the vets > load the letter to the patient file, the question prompts come up and the > vets/nurses fill them in and then save it. It saves to the patient file > and can be reprinted at any time. I had an idea I could attach client > letters in a similar sort of way by adding a blank letterhead as a letter > template in OpenVPMS but after playing around a bit I've found it won't > work because when I add the letter in the client DOCUMENTS area OpenVPMS > will only allow 300 characters in the input parameters area. I THINK my > problem would be solved here if we could have more than 300 > characters???????? But maybe I'm wrong. Can anyone shed any light? > Sandra. > _______________________________________________ > OpenVPMS User Mailing List > users@lists.openvpms.org > To unsubscribe or change your subscription visit: > http://lists.openvpms.org/listinfo/users > Posts from this mailing list can be viewed online and replied to in the > OpenVPMS User's forum- http://tinyurl.com/openvfu >_______________________________________________ OpenVPMS User Mailing List users@lists.openvpms.org To unsubscribe or change your subscription visit: http://lists.openvpms.org/listinfo/users Posts from this mailing list can be viewed online and replied to in the OpenVPMS User's forum- http://tinyurl.com/openvfu
Att
Sandra @ Bellarine
Hi,
How do I go about increasing the field size?
Sandra.
Re: New or updated comment for General User's Discussion Forum t
My current understanding Sandra is that this would require some
development.
It may not be a bad idea until the webdav option takes off... or it may
just be valuable $ that could be better spent on the webdav option!
Tim says;
"Users would edit documents within OpenOffice. On save, the document would
automatically be stored in OpenVPMS."
This would be a very attractive option as described and I think has very
strong support from some quarters.
I think I will create a Development project (done already) and get Tony/Tim
to create a JIRA for it.
One question to Tony/Tim, how would user fields work with this (considering
we have a recent development project under way that has allowed macros to
be included in the fields).
Cheers,
Matt C
Re: New or updated comment for General User's Discussion Forum t
The documents are generated from templates, so the user fields would be populated prior to the document being accessed via OpenOffice/Word.
You wouldn't be able to refresh the fields within OpenOffice/Word.
-Tim
Att
The parameter fields are limited to 300 characters in OpenVPMS 1.4.
As part of the macro changes, these have been increased to 5000 characters. This will be available in the 1.5 release.
-Tim
Attaching Letter to client/patient files
Hi Tim,
That may solve part of my problem. I imagine 1.5 is a long way off, are you able to give any indication or is it open ended at this stage?
Sandra.
Attaching Letter to client/patient files
Sandra, there are no dates for 1.5 as yet.
We're hoping to complete ESCI and include it in 1.5.
There will also be at least one alpha and one beta release before the final 1.5 release.
-Tim
Attaching Letter to client/patient files
Hi everyone,
The developers have been looking at different options for this project and in the end they are keen to assess a tool that may form part of the solution.
Just a reminder, this feature is so you can open a Letter in OpenOffice (and maybe Word) and edit it, click Save and have it update the document attached to the Patient automatically. This solution means that all the editing features in OpenOffice are available and that annoying reattaching process is circumvented. It sounds simple but it actually involves a lot of different technologies and several layers of communication.
Why? Cos OpenVPMS works through a web browser. This gives it enourmous flexibility and stability but it does make things tricky when we have to deal with issues such as these.
Back to the tool. So this tool is here http://milton.ettrema.com/index.html. It is called Milton and if you are technically minded you can read to your hearts content!
For the rest of us we need to decide if we want this feature enough to ask Tim to evaluate it for our purposes. This process is time consuming and will cost $1980 and may not result in a solution for our use. This is R&D.
If there is support I will create a Costing in the project for this step and we can give Tim the green light once we have the pledges...
Thanks everyone for reading.
Matt C
Re: Attaching Letter to client/patient files
-- Greenvale Animal Hospital
Attaching Letter to client/patient files
Hi Matt,
I think this is an important area. If ten people pledged $198.00 (10%) we could have it evaluated and find out the options!
Count us in.
Sandra.
Re: Attaching Letter to client/patient files
_______________________________________________ OpenVPMS User Mailing List users@lists.openvpms.org To unsubscribe or change your subscription visit: http://lists.openvpms.org/listinfo/users Posts from this mailing list can be viewed online and replied to in the OpenVPMS User's forum- http://tinyurl.com/openvfu
Attaching Letter to client/patient files (10% funded)
Hi everyone,
There is clearly enough support for this investigation to start raising funds for it.
Please note:
This is to raise funds for Tim to assess the feasibility of this tool. Not to create the feature itself. He has said that if there is any development time left over at the end of evaluation it will of course flow into the development itself.
$1980 is the target. We are already 10% of the way there.
Public pledges can be made to this forum topic or email me directly by clicking here (link only works in the forum).
Development will not commence until fully funded.
Cheers,
Matt C
Attaching Letter to client/patient files (25% funded)
$1980 is the target. We are already 25% of the way there.
Public pledges can be made to this forum topic or email me directly by clicking here (link only works in the forum).
Development will not commence until fully funded.
Cheers,
Matt C
Permanently attaching
Hi Matt,
We will pledge 10%
Cheers
Croydonvet
Permanently attaching
Hi Matt,
We will pledge the remainder of this project.
Sam
Direct Letter Editing (Milton evaluation complete!)
Hi everyone,
Tim has been evaluating the tool "Milton" to see if we could get direct editing working for our Letters in OpenVPMS as set out here
www.openvpms.org/project/direct-editing-openoffice-documents.
He has completed the evaluation and the results are impressive. It certainly would represent a significant improvement over current document editing.
A reminder,
The process would involve clicking a link in OpenVPMS and the document opening automatically (just in OpenOffice at this stage). Editing would be performed as normal but then all you would have to do is click Save and the document in OpenVPMS will be updated!
Afew limitations at this stage:
1. Word does support Saving at this stage.
2. Tim hasn't assessed versioning. In other words, the edited version will replace the document in OpenVPMS.
I am about to raise the project that will Seek Funds for the final implementation of the features.
Matt C
Direct Letter Editing (Feedback required)
Hi guys,
Some of you might have noticed that this project (www.openvpms.org/project/direct-editing-documents-using-milton-part-2) has dissapeared from the "Seeking Funding" area of the website.
This is because we have entered a new stage of Developer review/discussion.
The current sub tasks are as follows:
Sub JIRA (Part 2 - Add OpenOffice editing support via WebDAV): jira.openvpms.org/jira/browse/OVPMS-980
Sub JIRA (Part 3 - Add Microsoft Office editing support via WebDAV): jira.openvpms.org/jira/browse/OVPMS-981
Sub JIRA (Part 4 - Create Web Start editor launcher): jira.openvpms.org/jira/browse/OVPMS-982
So Part 2 and Part 4 will be needed for sure.
Part 3 is becuase microsoft word has some special requirements.
But one last option (Part 5 maybe) is whether we want to have the ability to create a new document from within OpenVPMS. In other words, create a new doc, and hey presto it immediately opens in OpenOffice/Word for immediate editing.
The alternative is that you will create, then click on the new "Edit" link that will appear whenever an editable document is present.
Fire awway,
Matt Costa
Re: New or updated comment for General User's Discussion Forum t
Hi Matt,
It seems sensible to open the document immediately as you suggest in part 5 - the reason you are creating it is to use it and it will take away one step.
Sam
Re: New or updated comment for General User's Discussion Forum
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:00:03 +0000 (UTC),
sam.snelling@advancedvetcare.com.au wrote: > Hi Matt, It seems sensible to open the document immediately as you > suggest in part 5 - the reason you are creating it is to use it and it > will take away one step. Sam > _______________________________________________ > OpenVPMS User Mailing List > users@lists.openvpms.org > To unsubscribe or change your subscription visit: > http://lists.openvpms.org/listinfo/users > Posts from this mailing list can be viewed online and replied to in > the OpenVPMS User's forum- http://tinyurl.com/openvfu_______________________________________________ OpenVPMS User Mailing List users@lists.openvpms.org To unsubscribe or change your subscription visit: http://lists.openvpms.org/listinfo/users Posts from this mailing list can be viewed online and replied to in the OpenVPMS User's forum- http://tinyurl.com/openvfu
Re: Permanently attaching Patient Letters to Medical Records
Hi guys,
Some of you might have noticed that this project (www.openvpms.org/project/direct-editing-documents-using-milton-part-2) has re appeared in the "Seeking Funding" area of the website.
Remember this will allow letters to be directly opened in open office or word and for changes to be saved directly back into OpenVPMS without reuploading.
All the sub jiras have been assessed and costed. The final costing for this feature is $5140.
Cheers,
Matt C
Direct editing of Patient Letters (Funding Update)
This project has been costed at $5140. We already have a 10% donation.
A user has pledged 10% funding for this project!
(10% funded. $4626 remaining)
Public pledges can be made to this forum topic or email me directly by clicking here (link only works in the forum).
Development will not commence until fully funded.
Matt C